Philadelphia Flyers Winter 2019 Top 25 Under 25: Nos. 15 to 11

Part three of our five-part Winter 25 Under 25 series is here, after we went through players 25 through 21 on Wednesday and players 20 through 16 on Thursday. Enjoy.

15. Robert Hagg

Primary Team/League: Philadelphia, NHL
2018-19 Stats: 4 G, 9 A in 48 GP
Rank in Summer 25 Under 25: 11

Paul (ranked him #16): I’m not high on Hagg. The only reason I ranked him inside the top-20 was because he’s a steady NHL player right now. In all honesty I wish I had ranked Hogberg here and left Hagg off based purely on metrics, but I did have to place value on the fact that the Hog has become a mainstay in the NHL. Hagg has been bad by advanced stats, especially relative to his team. In fact, among defensemen who have played 400 or more minutes at 5-on-5 this season, Hagg ranks 7th worst in the league with a -5.8 adjusted relative Corsi-for percentage (two of the guys behind him play for the Sharks and are both over 50% so…). At this point I just feel that Hagg is what he is; a stay-at-home type of guy that has some ability to move the puck and contribute offensively, but not consistently enough to make a real impact on a regular basis. I don’t see the upside with Hagg anymore and just know there are some players in the pipeline knocking on the door ready to make him expendable.

Brad (ranked him #19): Listen, I’m real nervous that Hagg is going to become the Andrew MacDonald of the 2020 era. I thought he had a better start to the season, but has since fallen off a bit and gone back to his off the glass and out, never challenge at the blue line ways. I had an internal argument with myself about how to judge someone who’s played over 100 NHL games but has had, in my opinion, a negative impact, versus a player who could possibly never play a game in the league; the former won and got ranked. I’m probably too low on Hagg, but I’m okay with that label.

Drew (ranked him #9): I think most of the reasoning for having Hagg at number nine is that we know he is indeed an NHL player. Whether or not his upside is 3rd pair or 2nd pair d-man has yet to be seen (at least in my eyes) but I think he’s improved this year from last year for certain.

Jay (ranked him #14): I felt generous giving out this ranking because…I just don’t really like Hagg all that much? He was always my least favorite of the “Big Four” defensive prospects. His game in the NHL hasn’t changed my perception all that much. His offensive skills may have taken a small leap forward this season, but I just don’t trust him at all in the neutral and defensive zone. With that, he does play in the NHL and I guess that counts for something.

Kurt (ranked him #12): I don’t know how I always end up ranking Hagg higher than the average; I really don’t think that much of him here. He’s shown a bit more offensive upside this season than he did last, but the overall projection that he may not be more than a third-pair defenseman has not much changed, in my opinion. I dunno. He’s a defensive defenseman who’s below the team’s average in basically any available measure of on-ice defensive performance, including defensive-zone-only measures such as expected on-ice save percentage. I’m just not sure how much is there. But, hey, apparently I put him 12th? So clearly something inside of me thinks that he’s got some talent. He’s big and a good skater, so theoretically the foundation for Something More is there. I just think others in the pipeline have more promise here.

Kyle (ranked him #15): Although I did not rank him higher than the average, in fact I ranked him right at the average, I still think Robert Hagg can be valuable to this team. He’s certainly had his fair share of issues to begin his NHL career and his decision making is questionable more often than I’d like, but I’m not giving up on him. His play-driving metrics are still not ideal or even good for that matter, but they are improving from last season. He’s producing more than he was in his rookie campaign and that’s the important part here. He’s improving by the eye test (to me at least) and we’re seeing it in his metrics. His ceiling may not be higher than a bottom pair defenseman, but hey, not everyone can be a top pair guy.

Jake (ranked him #21): As I’ve mentioned before, my rankings are based on potential; how good can this player be once they reach the NHL level. Well, Hagg has reached the NHL level, which is good! The trouble for me is he’s just….meh. He’s a 3rd pair defenseman who’s currently being played over his head. I think he’s made strides offensively in terms of jumping into the play more, but he just doesn’t really have the skill to do much with it. Not everyone can be a top pair guy; I’m fully aware of that fact. But I do feel there are players with greater potential than Hagg, therefore I’ve ranked him fairly low.

Craig (ranked him #13): Hagg is always one of the toughest players for me to rank. I’m not a fan of his game and I think he’s probably already hit his potential in the NHL, but he is (at the moment) a regular in the NHL. A lot of the guys I put just behind Hagg will leapfrog the blue liner once they get some NHL or professional action.

Mike (ranked him #13): Craig and I are smart hockey men, clearly. Hagg is going to have a long NHL career and while there’s a chance that he’s never more than a serviceable third pair guy, that’s still more than some prospects will ever achieve.

Kelly (ranked him #12): I don’t even like Robert Hagg, but he’s a regular in an NHL lineup that his coach seems to trust. So… yeah, midrank.

Maddie (ranked him #19): I’m glad I’m not alone in the difficulty had in ranking Hagg. He certainly gets credit for having carved out an NHL role for himself, and I definitely don’t want to take that away from him. But, at the same time, I’m not a massive fan of his skillset, and because a big part of my ranking criteria is (potential) upside, he falls down my list a bit.

14. German Rubtsov

Primary Team/League: Lehigh Valley, AHL
2018-19 Stats: 6 G, 4 A in 14 GP (season over due to injury)
Rank in Summer 25 Under 25: 14

Paul (ranked him #11): I wasn’t in love with the Rubtsov pick back when it happened, but watching him more and more over the years helped the Germ grow on me. I guess you could say his play is… infectious. What I always felt was that the the lack of consistency for this kid was really holding back his game. Over the last three seasons, Rubtsov has played in four different leagues, three of which (KHL, MHL, QMJHL) came following his draft during the 2016-17 season. He was then traded the following season to yet another team, all of this in the midst of transitioning to living in North America and trying to learn English. Not ideal, fam! I really love how smart Rubtsov plays the game and his decision making is top notch. He was impressive in development camp and during pre-season and it really is a terrible break that his season is already over in Lehigh Valley due to injury. What I love most about him is that he can play very well in all situations and would add a very skilled, intelligent player to the depth of this team who can also kill penalties, contribute on the powerplay, and play well in all three zones at 5-on-5. It’s going to be tough for him to crack the lineup out of camp next year, but I could certainly see him being a call-up during the season.

Brad (ranked him #10): I don’t know how I ended up with the highest Ruby ranking, because I was a skeptic heading into the season, but here we are. Before his season ending injury in mid-November, Rubtsov looked like one of their best players. That wasn’t lost on then-head coach Scott Gordon either, as Rubtsov very quickly became an all-situations player for him, primarily playing the right point on the first power play unit. On the penalty kill he and Vorobyev were truly a dynamic duo, but sadly we won’t be seeing anything more from him this season.

Maddie (ranked him #12): Thank you for acknowledging The True Nickname, Brad. Rubtsov has (or, had, I guess) been a really pleasant surprise for me, through the beginning of the season. Like Paul said, he proved to be useful in all situations, and that was really great to see. It’s a small sample, but it was enough to start to change my opinion of him—I was a definite skeptic coming in, but now I feel like he can potentially carve out a nice NHL role for himself, if he continues with this trajectory.

Drew (ranked him #13): Like Brad, I really like what I’ve seen from Rubtsov. I think eventually he will crack the top 10 of the under 25’s list given his ceiling. Give him a good full season in the AHL and he’ll have reason to be knocking on the Flyers’ door for a roster spot.

Jay (ranked him #13): “The Germ”, as he’d like to be called, has really turned some heads this season as he jumped into the pros for the first time. I was never convinced the offense was every going to come around for the kid and we’d get something of a Scott Laughton-type where the ceiling isn’t much larger than 3C. That might be changing based on what we’ve seen in Lehigh Valley (and this coming from a Rubtsov-skeptic). It really does suck that he’s out for the season and couldn’t get a full year in so we could get a better full-season picture.

Kurt (ranked him #14): Jay, welcome to the Germsistance. Anywho, his injury is a REAL bummer. He needed a big year at the AHL to raise up his status a bit after a really disappointing time in the QMJHL in his post-draft years, and through the first few weeks of the season he was having that big year. The first AHL season is a huge developmental year for any young player, and for a guy like Rubtsov who’s dealt with a lot of instability in his young career so far, this was a great chance for the team to give him some actual stability and see what they had in him. His strong showing in those games with the Phantoms gives us a bit more optimism than we probably had coming into the season, but he’ll enter next year still having a lot to prove.

Kyle (ranked him #12): I wasn’t high on “The Germ” at all coming into this season, I thought he was clearly a guy who just wasn’t going to figure it out and become a waste of a first round pick. This was going to be his make or break season for myself and how I viewed him, and he certainly impressed before his injury. Rubtsov was showcasing the talent and skill that made him a first round pick. His season was unfortunately cut short by injury, but the little we saw from him this season was enough for me to believe he has in fact figured it out. I’m interested to see if he can impress in camp and preseason next year, and make a push to make the NHL roster.

Jake (ranked him #13): As the founder of the German Rubtsov bandwagon, I’m pretty surprised I don’t have the highest ranking for him. I’ve been a Rubtsov fan since he was drafted. He was the player I wanted in 2016 and I literally jumped out of my seat when Hextall read his name at the podium. Rubtsov’s had a really rough go of it in terms of injuries, changing teams, changing friggin continents. Something just seemed to click for him this season in Lehigh Valley, and the player I had woken up early to watch in the MHL had reappeared. He was highly responsible while also showing an ability to be aggressive in the offensive zone and finish plays. It’s extremely unfortunate he ended up with a season-ending shoulder injury as I was really excited to see how his first professional season would play out, especially after the start he had to the season. Hopefully whatever clicked for him carries over into next season, because if it does, I would not be surprised at all to see Rubtsov end up somewhere in the Flyers’ middle six in the near future.

Craig (ranked him #15): I’ve always been skeptical of The Germ. He had to overcome a lot in his first few years with the organization (Russian doping scandal, transitioning to life in North America, injuries), but his lack of high-end production as a first-round pick in a league like the QMJHL paired with Hextall’s comments after last year’s WJC made me feel like everything couldn’t be blamed on his adversity. Then he came out and was on fire for the first part of this season, but got hurt again. His play in the AHL has given me confidence in him going forward, but I want to see it for a whole season at the professional level.

Mike (ranked him #12): The Germ is the worst nickname ever, just wanted to make sure that was the last thing you all read that and know that not all of BSH supports this. That said, it sucks Rubstov got hurt as he seemed to turn a corner with Lehigh Valley to start the season. Hopefully he can build on that start next season and show the all-around game that should make him an NHL contributor someday soon.

Kelly (ranked him #20): Hmm…despite loving German Rubstov for bringing “THE GERRRRRMMMM” into my life, it would appear that I’m not terribly high on him. Like Craig, before this season I’ve been a bit worried that The Germ wasn’t ever going to produce the way we expected him to. He was playing very well with the Phantoms before getting hurt, but I need to know that this isn’t a fluke and he can sustain that level of play. If he can’t, then I wonder if he’ll ever be an NHL regular with this team.

T-12. Wade Allison

Primary Team/League: Western Michigan, NCAA
2018-19 Stats: 2 G, 2 A in 8 GP
Rank in Summer 25 Under 25: 12

Paul (ranked him #10): His health is a concern, but I love Allison’s game. He’s a big, right-hand shot right winger who can score the goals. All of the hockey goals! He has a booming shot and a quick release and just loves to put the puck in the back of the net, which is something this team desperately needs and something I value highly in regards to this organization’s immediate needs. He also plays a very smart game and has great awareness on the ice, which is important when playing with highly skilled players. There’s a part of me that desperately wants to see a third line featuring Morgan Frost and Wade Allison as soon as next season, but I do need to pump my brakes a bit here.

Jay (ranked him #16): His season-ending knee surgery to close out the 2017-18 season was a real shot to the gut. He was trending towards a Hobey Baker Award top finish amidst a truly breakout sophomore season at WMU. It took him a bit to make his 2018-19 season debut and has been brought back slowly. The talent is there, but at the present he’s hurt again (thankfully not his knee). A lost season definitely moved him down on my list, but could shoot back up into the Top 10 with strong finish.

Drew (ranked him #16): Looking back at it, I would rank Allison a little higher on my list given a do-over. He was in some form last year, and had it not been for the injury, I think the Flyers would have been begging him to come play in the AHL. He’s everything the Flyers need: a goal scoring winger with one heck of a snipe! I have a feeling if he pans out, he’ll be replacing JVR on that powerplay soon enough.

Kurt (ranked him #15): I ranked Wade 15th? That seems low for me. I guess there’s still uncertainty after the knee injury and the slow re-start this year, but he’s one of the guys Hextall clearly loved to death, and you can see why when you watch him — he’s a rough-and-tumble player who’s able to score goals. He’s never been a real burner, so hopefully this injury doesn’t take much away from what he is. We know the FO pushed hard to sign him last summer and he declined to join the team — wonder if Fletcher and co. push as hard, and if he’s more open to it this time around.

Kyle (ranked him #10): The injury bug has certainly bit Allison hard over the past two seasons, but I’m still extremely high on the Western Michigan winger. He’s exactly what this team needs on the wing in terms of a shoot first, aggressive forward. He’s one of my favorite prospects in the pipeline, primarily due to his play style, but also because I think he has legit 30 goal potential at the NHL level and to be frank, we don’t have much of that on the current roster.

Jake (ranked him #10): The injury makes it tough to fully justify making him a top 10 under-25 prospect, but Allison just brings a skill set to this organization that they severely lack, which is a natural scorer. Allison isn’t just a park in front of the net and grab rebounds kind of scorer; he’s a true scorer. And while his skating isn’t great, his scoring prowess makes him an intriguing prospect. The organization is high on Allison and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him push for a roster spot next season.

Craig (ranked him #11): Unfortunately, injuries are a real concern for Allison at the moment, but I love everything else about his game. He’ll be on the Flyers in a few seasons and I can’t wait to see the Big Red Train piss off opponents.

Mike (ranked him #14): There’s a lot to like in terms of his scoring ability and a lot to dislike about his injury history. Seeing how he closes out the rest of his college season coming back from the knee injury will be key to vault into his pro career. If he’s healthy he’s big body that can fill up the net and bring the Flyers some attitude that could really use.

Kelly (ranked him #11): Man, coming in to these round tables late sucks. Everyone takes all the good thoughts early! Not a lot to add here that hasn’t been said by the folks who ranked him right around where I did. The way that Hextall pushed hard to get him to go pro makes me think that there’s something special to this kid. Wouldn’t hurt to have a shooter on the roster, that’s for sure.

Maddie (ranked him #13): It would be pretty cool to have a shooter on the team, eh? I’m cautiously optimistic on Allison—I like his potential upside, but the injuries worry me. Not that I’m trying to throw any sort of “injury-prone” label on him, because I don’t like that, but purely for what Kurt mentioned, the fear that the knee injury might take away some of the relatively little speed he had. But hopefully that doesn’t end up being an issue.

T-12. Isaac Ratcliffe

Primary Team/League: Guelph, OHL
2018-19 Stats: 33 G, 18 A in 42 GP
Rank in Summer 25 Under 25: 15

[Ed. note: Allison and Ratcliffe received the same number of vote points across all of our ballots, which is why they are listed as tied for 12th. Ratcliffe received the highest vote across all ballots between the two players — he received an 8th place vote, higher than any vote received by Allison — which is why he is in the “12th” spot while Allison was in the “13th” spot.]

Paul (ranked him #14): I could see Ratcliffe as a Wayne Simmonds-esque replacement. As in I think he has skill and I think he brings an element to the game that not a lot of players can bring physically, but I need to see him use it more in camps and during pre-season. He has tremendous size, is a plus skater for someone 6’6”, and has great hands, I just worry that he’s going to be able to put it all together when transitioning to the professional ranks. He’s a very unique player though and I’m intrigued to see what he can do heading into next season.

Jay (ranked him #15): Ratcliffe has been very “status quo” for me. He’s trending to blow past his goal-totals from last season in his fourth OHL season, but guess I just expected the jump to be more substantial. He’s on a much better Guelph squad this season and is now on a line with the recently acquired Nick Suzuki who should give him a boost in the points department. I’m very curious as to how his play is going to translate to the pro-level.

Drew (ranked him #8): For whatever reason, I’m so so high on Ratcliffe. When he was drafted, he felt like a bit of a project taking a player of his stature. But, my word he has lit up juniors in Guelph. He plays like a larger, silkier Wayne Simmonds, and I’m all here for it. Please score all the goals Issac.

Kurt (ranked him #10): In what is strangely a theme in this post, I’m a little surprised at where I ended up putting Ratcliffe, but on this round it’s because of how high I had him. Maybe the recency bias (he just had a long goal streak and a hat trick) was weighing on my mind when I filled out the ballot. Him right alongside Allison seems fitting, but his transition to the AHL where he isn’t way bigger than everyone else is going to be interesting to watch. It IS nice to see him racking up the goals this year, even if that’s what a guy of his stature should be doing against kids.

Kyle (ranked him #13): Much of why I’m a huge fan of Wade Allison is why I’m a fan of Isaac Ratcliffe. He’s a goal scorer to a tee and another big body to throw on the wing. For as huge as Ratcliffe is, he’s got a tremendous amount of pucks skills especially in the crease area. He’s got a fantastic shot and I’m excited to see what he can bring to the AHL next season. Sure, I’d like to see better numbers from a guy in his fourth OHL season, and especially given how much bigger he is compared to his competition. But, I think his skill set and frame will help his transition to the AHL and eventually the NHL.

Jake (ranked him #12): Ratcliffe and Allison have similar profiles in their scoring ability. The guy just knows how to put the puck in the net and when you combine his skating and deking ability with his size, he makes for a very intriguing prospect. I think he still has maturing to do physically and a year in the AHL would likely do him a lot of good next season. But for a guy who was seen as a “project”, I think he’s more polished than originally given credit for coming out of the draft.

Craig (ranked him #20): Lmao, I like Ratcliffe! I didn’t think I’d have him ranked the lowest. I wasn’t a big fan of the pick when it was made, but he’s been a monster the entire time he’s been with the Flyers’ organization. He was great on some bad Guelph teams and nothing has changed now that the team has some actual players. I think the reason I have him kind of low is the fact he hasn’t had regular time at the professional level yet. We know he can dominate the OHL, I just want to see him score goals consistently in the AHL (which he will and when he does so he probably jumps up to the top ten for me).

Kelly: Craig, this was me with The Germ! I like him why was he #20, haha.

Maddie (ranked him #24): Well, congrats, Craig, you didn’t rank him the lowest. I’m a bit of a Ratcliffe skeptic, but I’m not entirely sure how I ended up with him this low. Hm. Anyway, I can definitely see where the upside is, but he’s still something of a project, and I think I expected him to take a bigger step forward this season than he has so far (but hey, maybe he’s in the middle of that late-season rally now). I’d also like to see what he can do in the AHL, and I imagine that’ll be his chance to pick up some ground in my personal ranking. I’m definitely willing to give him a chance to do that.

Mike (ranked him #15): I kept him where we had him in the Summer because he’s been basically the same he was after his last junior season. He can score and do a ton of things at the junior level, but his frame is pretty slight and he’ll need time to adjust to pro bodies. Doesn’t strike me as much of a project as he was billed not long ago, but he’s still got a long way to go to prove to me he’s a top-10 prospect in a loaded system.

Kelly (ranked him #13): He’s got size and he can skate and he can score. I like all of these things in a hockey player, so I’m excited to see how this kid develops.

11. Mikhail Vorobyev

Primary Team/League: Lehigh Valley, AHL
2018-19 Stats: 5 G, 13 A in 29 GP
Rank in Summer 25 Under 25: 13

Kurt (ranked him #13): Remember when Vorobyev clearly earned the third-line center position out of camp and then had like three bad games and then Hakstol basically said in a post-game presser “yeah I don’t think he’s good at hockey” and then he got sent back down and we haven’t heard from him since? That was strange. Anywho, haven’t heard much from him since then, and while I’m pretty sure he’ll get another shot at some point in the future, have to wonder if it may wait until training camp next year.

Brad (ranked him #14): Sigh, I do remember that, yes. So as someone who was banging the proverbial Vorobyev drum louder than almost anybody last season, I actually don’t think he’s been as good this year. I wouldn’t say he’s been bad, but there’s just something missing and I can’t put my finger on the exact thing. Visually, and marginally statistically, his impact in all three zones just isn’t at the level that it was last season. I will say that I think he’s been better of late, especially on the penalty kill — where, again, he and Rubtsov were incredible in their short time together earlier in the season — and maybe it’s all about finding the right linemates at 5-on-5. That last part may have already happened because the early returns from his new line with Justin Bailey and Colin McDonald have been fantastic.

Maddie (ranked him #11): Yeah, I have to agree, he hasn’t been as good this year, but he’s looking better of late. This feels like sort of a vague statement, but it looks like he’s finally getting his feet moving again, and everything else has been sort of falling into place. And I’m also really liking the early looks of this new line that Brad just mentioned. It’s been really good so far. Things are getting better for Vorobyev, and I’m still a big fan of his, and I have pretty close to full faith that he’ll be able to turn things around through the back half of this season.

Drew (ranked him #14): I think whether or not his demotion was warranted or Hak-mandated is debatable. Regardless, the fact that he won the job from camp clearly says a lot about his NHL potential. With Misha at center, the Flyers could move Laughton to the 4th line center role again, and he would certainly help on the penalty kill. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Vorobyev in the NHL next year.

Mike (ranked him #11): Nailed this one. After winning the 3C job out of camp and being sent down for essentially a few bad games and being punished for being a young player for Dave Hakstol, Misha has been rather quiet in the AHL this season. He’s good in all three zones and will have to prove himself to another regime, but the talent and opportunity is there for him to have an impact on the NHL roster.

Jay (ranked him #12): I think most of my feelings were expressed above by Kurt and Brad. I thought he looked good in his limited time with the Flyers and is clearly very good at the AHL level. I would like to see him given a longer leash next season, but the future looks bright as far as an NHL career is concerned.

Paul (ranked him #12): I was super pumped about Misha coming into this year. He looked great at camp and all throughout pre-season, but then something just seemed to fall off. Part of me wants to throw the blame on Dave Hakstol, as it seems that anyone who is skilled, but playing in the bottom-six of the lineup, was to turn off all skill buttons and play their “role”. I don’t really think Vorobyev was given a fair shot to figure out his way in the NHL and has since been dealing with a mental block of some sorts trying to “figure out his game”. I really like the way he plays and how smart he is in all three zones, but I also don’t think there’s a ton of upside there outside of being a bottom-six center who can kill penalties and play responsibly. However, I think he would be a near perfect fit for today’s NHL at the 4C spot behind Sean Couturier, Nolan Patrick, and Morgan Frost, but I do believe he’s capable of holding his own at 3C, just needs the opportunity to do so. I’d like to see him get some games with the Flyers as the season winds down to begin prepping him for what could be a full-time role next year.

Kyle (ranked him #16): Remember when we were told how good Dave Hakstol was going to be with younger players? Ah, yeah that didn’t work out too well. Misha, to be fair, really didn’t look good to start his NHL career but the decision by Hakstol to essentially kick him to the curb immediately was flat out stupid. I have him lower than most and part of that is due to his lack of production with the Phantoms since being sent down. I still think he’s a very talented center who can be a solid 3C for this team, but over the course of the season so far, I just think other players have jumped him and he might end up being an odd man out. I hope not, but sometimes that’s just the way she goes.

Jake (ranked him #15): Misha has dropped just a smidge in my personal rankings. I had him at #13 entering the season. A lot of it is due to the play of other prospects in the system. Some of it is based on what I saw early in the year. After a really solid start, he fizzled pretty quickly. Now granted, I’m not laying the bulk of it on him. Hakstol was his coach, that in and of itself puts him behind the 8 ball. And all rookies are going to struggle. That said, Misha is a guy that has been playing pro hockey longer than most players his age, so I was a bit surprised in how drastically he fell off in terms of his level of play. I still like Misha as a player quite a bit. I think he’s a really cerebral player with strong passing and defensive ability. But going forward, I’m not sure he’s much more than a really strong 4C/low end 3C, and not just because of who he has in front of him on the organizational depth chart.

Craig (ranked him #10): He’s been killing it in the AHL and I think he should be back up in the NHL. It’s a real shame there isn’t one single, logical, acceptable reason to kick Jori Lehtera off the fourth line and have Vorobyev called back up.

Kelly (ranked him #16): I really want to feel more positively about Misha, but he didn’t do a lot with his opportunity when he was called up. I think we’ll see him on the big club again, but at this point I think he’s a fourth liner. Which is fine! We need those! But he can’t jump ahead of more exciting prospects given what we know now.

How We Voted For Players 15-11

How We Voted At 15-11